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	<title>Comments on: Redemption: CSS Layouts</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.webdesign.fm/redemption-css-layouts/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.webdesign.fm/redemption-css-layouts/</link>
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		<title>By: Greg Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.webdesign.fm/redemption-css-layouts/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webdesign.fm/?p=102#comment-110</guid>
		<description>I use CSS to format my markup because it works for me and it&#039;s what I&#039;ve been doing for as long as I can remember. I learned to use CSS because it was challenging at the time compared to tables, and I think most of us like to challenge ourselves.

There are still things tables can do for layout that pure CSS simply can&#039;t handle. For these instances I use javascript (It&#039;s acceptable now, right?).

R.I.P. Spacer GIF.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Greg Johnson’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://greg-j.com/2009/02/07/the-wordpressorg-theme-directory-sucks/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The WordPress.org theme directory sucks&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use CSS to format my markup because it works for me and it&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve been doing for as long as I can remember. I learned to use CSS because it was challenging at the time compared to tables, and I think most of us like to challenge ourselves.</p>
<p>There are still things tables can do for layout that pure CSS simply can&#8217;t handle. For these instances I use javascript (It&#8217;s acceptable now, right?).</p>
<p>R.I.P. Spacer GIF.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Greg Johnson’s last blog post..<a href="http://greg-j.com/2009/02/07/the-wordpressorg-theme-directory-sucks/" rel="nofollow">The WordPress.org theme directory sucks</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Russ Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.webdesign.fm/redemption-css-layouts/#comment-97</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 15:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webdesign.fm/?p=102#comment-97</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t say it&#039;s over.  I see the question pop up in forums all the time.  Besides it&#039;s fun to rile up the design crowd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say it&#8217;s over.  I see the question pop up in forums all the time.  Besides it&#8217;s fun to rile up the design crowd.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: WebUnicorn</title>
		<link>http://www.webdesign.fm/redemption-css-layouts/#comment-96</link>
		<dc:creator>WebUnicorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 14:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webdesign.fm/?p=102#comment-96</guid>
		<description>same as Jay said
the debate over CSS vs Tables was hot in the 2005 may be
:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>same as Jay said<br />
the debate over CSS vs Tables was hot in the 2005 may be<br />
 <img src='http://www.webdesign.fm/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.webdesign.fm/redemption-css-layouts/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webdesign.fm/?p=102#comment-71</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t aware that there are self-respecting designers out there who still use tables to build web sites!

The shame!

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t aware that there are self-respecting designers out there who still use tables to build web sites!</p>
<p>The shame!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Russ Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.webdesign.fm/redemption-css-layouts/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webdesign.fm/?p=102#comment-70</guid>
		<description>Jess, making the switch from tables to CSS can be hard, but it can be easy if it is done in steps.  As far as the snobbery, I just call it the way I see it. :) Thanks for your comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jess, making the switch from tables to CSS can be hard, but it can be easy if it is done in steps.  As far as the snobbery, I just call it the way I see it. <img src='http://www.webdesign.fm/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Thanks for your comment.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jess</title>
		<link>http://www.webdesign.fm/redemption-css-layouts/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webdesign.fm/?p=102#comment-69</guid>
		<description>Haha, I like the humor of this post.  I learned web design by using tables and I had a hard time making the switch to CSS and divs.  And I used to make all the arguments for tables- what&#039;s the big deal, it has fewer problems with layout, it looks exactly the same anyways.

But after working with CSS for so long there&#039;s no way I would ever layout something with a table again.  It&#039;s faster to write, more flexible, yada yada.  You listed the reasons above.  

As for hacks, if you work with CSS long enough you learn how to code everything to avoid using hacks.  At the worst I have to implement maybe three little hacks, it&#039;s not a big deal.

But there can be a great deal of snobbery in the CSS-only camp, which is why this post made me laugh so much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, I like the humor of this post.  I learned web design by using tables and I had a hard time making the switch to CSS and divs.  And I used to make all the arguments for tables- what&#8217;s the big deal, it has fewer problems with layout, it looks exactly the same anyways.</p>
<p>But after working with CSS for so long there&#8217;s no way I would ever layout something with a table again.  It&#8217;s faster to write, more flexible, yada yada.  You listed the reasons above.  </p>
<p>As for hacks, if you work with CSS long enough you learn how to code everything to avoid using hacks.  At the worst I have to implement maybe three little hacks, it&#8217;s not a big deal.</p>
<p>But there can be a great deal of snobbery in the CSS-only camp, which is why this post made me laugh so much.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Russ Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.webdesign.fm/redemption-css-layouts/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webdesign.fm/?p=102#comment-64</guid>
		<description>Craig, in my opinion browsers still have a long way to go in how they handle CSS.  They have made great strides, but they aren&#039;t there yet.  Thanks for your comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig, in my opinion browsers still have a long way to go in how they handle CSS.  They have made great strides, but they aren&#8217;t there yet.  Thanks for your comment.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: craig</title>
		<link>http://www.webdesign.fm/redemption-css-layouts/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webdesign.fm/?p=102#comment-63</guid>
		<description>I do like seeing a sense of humor here.

Frankly my impression of CSS advocates used to be someone who turned in work late and over-budget while waxing philosophically about how it would somehow be easier to update later (and yes their updates were also late and over-budget). It was only when I found Firebug, that I finally saw how developing pure CSS layout could be faster.

I don&#039;t feel CSS breaks very elegantly.  For example it&#039;s easier to tell that a row is too wide, when the row actually becomes too wide(rather than dropping an element down and pushing other elements around the page). 

I work a very intelligent group of programmers. Occasionally they are tasked to do some minimal layout when I am busy and they struggle mightily with the simplest of CSS bugs.  

Now that CSS has won the war, I hope we can start focusing on why it still isn&#039;t optimal instead of becoming defensive and arguing about tables for non-tabular data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do like seeing a sense of humor here.</p>
<p>Frankly my impression of CSS advocates used to be someone who turned in work late and over-budget while waxing philosophically about how it would somehow be easier to update later (and yes their updates were also late and over-budget). It was only when I found Firebug, that I finally saw how developing pure CSS layout could be faster.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t feel CSS breaks very elegantly.  For example it&#8217;s easier to tell that a row is too wide, when the row actually becomes too wide(rather than dropping an element down and pushing other elements around the page). </p>
<p>I work a very intelligent group of programmers. Occasionally they are tasked to do some minimal layout when I am busy and they struggle mightily with the simplest of CSS bugs.  </p>
<p>Now that CSS has won the war, I hope we can start focusing on why it still isn&#8217;t optimal instead of becoming defensive and arguing about tables for non-tabular data.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Russ Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.webdesign.fm/redemption-css-layouts/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webdesign.fm/?p=102#comment-61</guid>
		<description>Art, I can&#039;t argue with that.  Thanks for the comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art, I can&#8217;t argue with that.  Thanks for the comment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Art</title>
		<link>http://www.webdesign.fm/redemption-css-layouts/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>Art</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webdesign.fm/?p=102#comment-60</guid>
		<description>Not only is table layout so last decade, it&#039;s so last century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not only is table layout so last decade, it&#8217;s so last century.</p>
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